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You now have an image upload form at textareas! If you think this was as easy to do as it looks, then you're dead wrong, but don't worry about that... 
2008-07-06 [All_Most PUNK]: Or click on Silvie's link :P That could work too.
2008-07-06 [Avatar15]: #[Artsieladie] Haha~ I kind of do have to agree on the "run it" :/
2008-07-06 [Zantia]: Well considering how many people are members and how many people are actually active, theres a big gap. Theres around 3500 people active these days so I don't think a poll would be that confusing or too much of a bad idea.
And then you can't count on everyone taking the poll so say only half of that 3500 take the poll it'd be 1750 people. And the results would be varied and understandable
2008-07-06 [All_Most PUNK]: But it's not a poll. It's a poll for every change you make, that would have to consider every possibility for the new "feature" or for the change, which considering that most people have a different opinion, gives you, to say something, a poll with 500 options. And the resolution still doesn't make everyone happy. So no, it's not realistic.
2008-07-06 [Anvikit]: is there not a way to add the choice to view or not view the last visitor bar to your preferences page?
or if you wish not to be seen, add that preference too?
I've always liked the last visitor feature, I got to see who was visiting my house, and I often surfed the last visitor feature, from house to house just looking though all the different houses..
also, did a lot of recent comments from various wiki pages get deleted?
2008-07-06 [Ramirez]: All comments in wiki's and forums that were younger than a month were deleted from ET's crash.
2008-07-06 [windowframe]: Yeah, there was a big crash and wiki comments, diary, guest book and forum postings from the last month are gone.
2008-07-06 [All_Most PUNK]: Read the wiki. Right now you have the last visitor list with a couple changes: people don't appear automatically there anymore, they have to add themselves. So the list shows the last 10 persons that added themselves to your list. There's a new "Add" button on the list.
But the list is there again.
Read the news. Nobody deleted wiki comments but we lost a lot of wiki comments and posts in a crash. Everything between 12/06 and 05/07 or so was lost because there was a problem with script that made the back ups.
EDIT: Everybody is faster to answer than I am :P
2008-07-06 [Ramirez]: I used the wrong word, I didn't mean deleted, I should have used 'lost' instead. v.v
2008-07-06 [Zantia]: [All_Most PUNK]:How often is this site changed in a big way though? I’ve been here for a very long time now and this is probably the biggest I’ve seen. But it’s just another step forward for the community but it may not always be right. If there was a poll for when it was changed in a big way rather than a minor way it would benefit everyone in the long run, things would be done right the first time and there would be a poll to back up the change. And no, there would not be 500 options, you're not thinking about it logically. There would be 2-5 options (more if really necessary) with the general ideas in those options. Then the majority would be happy and feel as if they've had a say. Course there will always be people that won't be happy but there would have been a poll and that is the back up in that sort of situation. Although that is by no means to totally ignore that persons idea. It may be that that idea is better than the original ideas thought up and might benefit the community more so than the previous.
It's all about input and output, it makes everyone happier in the long run. I’m just saying that if there was a poll on some of these changes before they happened maybe fewer people would be “complaining” about the changes. :)
2008-07-06 [windowframe]: Then the majority would be happy and feel as if they've had a say
I still don't understand why you all think you're entitled to a say. <.<
2008-07-06 [Ramirez]: Well, I think her point is that there's changes made and then there's a place for comments and suggestions about the changes. Maybe the point of the poll would lessen the complaints? Since we seem to have some sort of say in what's happening, then why not avoid the full force of complaining by allowing the majority to choose what changes they believe will benefit Elftown the most?
2008-07-06 [Levoton]: *Reports bugs*
Some aesthetic things: http://www.rev
With the wiki mess-up, it fixes itself if I resize the text but well. Regarding the buttons, I have a very wide screen (1680px) which is probably the cause but that isn't a reason to ignore it. :P
A suggestion: Considering I and probably many others will be too lazy to click "Add me!" for visitor lists every single time while still wanting friends to know they've been in the house, I recommend some sort of a box in personal settings where you can turn the visitor list "on" or "off". For a name to appear on the list, both the visitor and visited must have the feature turned on. It has the same effect as now but is automated.
2008-07-06 [Zantia]: [windowframe]: So even though i'm in this community I'm not entitled to a say? And nobody else is either?
And even if the community doesn't like the change it'll happen anyway even if it stunts the site as a whole?
2008-07-06 [windowframe]: Majorities are usually stupid. And they're also not the ones who have to do the work, nor do the majority know how to program. :P The "majority" have always been, and still are welcome, to make suggestions in the suggestion forum, or on the suggestions wiki-page, or on the ERA page. But I agree with Punk that a poll would be impractical.
2008-07-06 [windowframe]: [Zantia]: Did I say you weren't entitled to a say, or did I say I didn't understand why everyone believes their entitled to a say?
And basically, to a degree, yes. But I don't think a few new buttons are going to "stunt the site".
2008-07-06 [Ramirez]: Fair enough. I understand that the majority does not have to do all the programing, but I think it'd still be nice to at least forewarn people about changes and allow some discussion about them before they take place. That might lessen the amount of complaints.
2008-07-06 [windowframe]: personally, I think the complaints would be more, because people would be saying "i want this to happen!' 'no, your idea is stupid, I want this to happen!' without any frame-work or direction. Now that the changes have been made, people can say 'I don't like this part, or that part' - the complaints are more focused, so they're more likely to actually achieve something. But that's just my opinion.
2008-07-06 [Ramirez]: That's true and I suppose that does work to a point. Or in the discussion there can be statements of what's going to happen and either people will agree or disagree with it. They shouldn't be able to choose things that should be done, that's what the suggestion forum is about. But if there's already a change laid out right there then all you can do is improve the change or have the change not happen at all.
2008-07-06 [windowframe]: Thing is, before we could say 'there will be new buttons' or 'we'll change x page to look like blah blah blah,' but now people can actually see the changes, see the new buttons as they are on the page, and see the new page layout, and then say 'nah, we think the ET status box needs to be higher!' I think being able to actually see the changes gives everyone a better idea of what does and doesn't work.
2008-07-06 [Ramirez]: You do have a very good point and I do agree that most people would be able to decide if they actually like something if they actually see it. Though as long as the voice of the citizens is taken into consideration, then I suppose that all is well.
2008-07-06 [Zantia]: There another site I am part of that lets the people see screen shots of what the change will look like before it happens. Thats an idea.
2008-07-06 [Zab]: Please just put the message and wiki-changes stuff above the wiki editing stuff to the right.. x_X It's driving me nuts..all the other things I can live with...
And is my comments being deleted? Because it keeps saying I havn't written here before...(forget that partr..read about the crash...but still..it happened before the crash too..)
2008-07-06 [Anvikit]: I read the wiki, I was making a suggestion/ask
Sorry I missed the mainstreet news, thanks for letting me know.
2008-07-06 [Alexi Ice]: Ok, so elftown keeps shutting down on me ever since the changes...
2008-07-06 [Cia_mar]: i agree with [Levoton]'s suggestion:
I recommend some sort of a box in personal settings where you can turn the visitor list "on" or "off"...
either that... or instead of us having to add ourselves (which most of us really dont care if we are seen or mostly we do want to be seen... i think that the option should be "remove me" instead!
it is getting to be a hassle every time i visit a friends house to see updates and i want them to know i was there, to have to click that button...
also... agreeing with [Zab]
the way that the bar is set up on the side...
while i am wiki hopping i would rather see my new messages and such status above everything else,
because that is what i am most interested in knowing...
all the wiki owner info and who last edited what page version
was better when it was below the basic status bar
that info is secondary in my priority list...
perhaps, if it is possible...
like yahoo home pages (the "my yahoo" page) you can make it to allow us to chose the placement of the boxes....have a basic couple of styles to chose from and the ability to move certain boxes to where we want them, with in certain limits...
also one other thing..
while the sparkly name is a neat idea
i think what i would want more than that is to be able to change the color of my name... or even the font?!?!
i mean being a donor allows us to use color
"html" on our descriptions, why not make it so that the priv opens a color/font option in the personal info edit form???
it would only be on our house that the name appears that way
not in the wikis
just like colors only work on our houses but not in wikis
ok that is all for now
thanks
2008-07-06 [Balthizar]: Make it so that even non donors can see the sparkles? To better identify what members are donors?
2008-07-06 [Hedda]: [Zantia] What do you mean that you have to log in to Elftown again if you visit another site? It's not so as far as I know. You stay logged into Elftown as long as you don't log out or your "Time before being automatically logged out:" expires.
But you do get logged out from Elftown if you log into Elftown from another browser.
2008-07-07 [Alexi Ice]: I just wish the message panel was back where it used to be, thats really the only thing that pisses me off its like a scavenger hunt trying to find it...Its completly un-organized, and the print on everything is REALLY small so its hard to look at for long periods of time...and the color is too brite...other than that, its not so bad.
2008-07-07 [Zantia]: [Hedda]: Like if i've been browsing elftown and then I decide I want to go to another site, I just click onto that site and when I click back onto elftown on it comes up with the front page where I have to log in again.
I have elftown.eu on my favourites but I have say DeviantArt as www.deviantart
I don't know if what I said made sense there but yeah lol.
2008-07-07 [Cia_mar]: [Zantia] in your personal settings, what do you have your "automatic log me off" time set to?
i have mine at 2 hours...
so i can leave ET and return to it again numerous times
the only thing that i can thing of else that may be too, is are you bringing up ET from the book mark of your favorites?
it may be that it is set to bring you to the log in page directly
try bookmarking your house instead
oh and when you return to et after browsing somewhere else, are you closing the broweser window and opening a new one?
that may also be a reason
hope any of that helps
2008-07-07 [Lothuriel]: So...ummmm...d
Do we have to click the Add Me Button each time we visit someone's house or just the one time?
2008-07-07 [Ramirez]: From my understanding, yes, you do.
2008-07-07 [Lothuriel]: Each time, then?
2008-07-07 [Hedda]: [Zantia]: Are you going to elftown.eu ? That page looks the same regardless if you're logged in or not.
Don't go to elftown.eu but to elftown.eu/sta
2008-07-07 [Ramirez]: My buttons are off-center again. It's bare-able, but not very pretty. e.e
2008-07-07 [Lothuriel]: Try this style sheet _modify-css.cs
It's the one that fixed the problem for me
2008-07-07 [Ramirez]: It didn't work =/ My buttons when on houses are split into two parts and the text is off-centered. It's strange looking.
2008-07-07 [Lothuriel]: Then I'd suggest you probably report it in the Bugs Forum. [Hedda] and [True, plain and simple] are probably more likely to check there than here.
2008-07-07 [Ramirez]: All righty then. Thanks.
2008-07-07 [Lothuriel]: No problem...
2008-07-07 [Trennas]: happy the visitors list is back! the workaround is a bit annoying, but as a compromise i can understand it ^^
bug report (IE6):
* the text fields for messages still scales. wiki comment fields dont scale anymore.
* the top bar is still aligned vertical instead of horizontal
* new button layout doesnt work with lightgreen (and possible other) stylesheets
* the right bar seems to be working fine, albeit the order of the various fields is very different from what it used to be, therefore slightly confusing, but nothing serious.
* seem to be missing things from the last month or so.. diary entries, bookmarks, that sort of thing.
2008-07-07 [Estantia]: In agreement with Zab and Zia mar here. I like the new options with uploading images etc, but it really annoys me to have to scroll down to the alerts every single time. As Cia pointed out, those are my top priority, and so it's those I want to see immediately and access if needed.
2008-07-07 [Les chansons d'amour]: Im not sure if my friends list is working >.< it keeps flashing green to black. And the buttons ontopp of my house are all on top of each other :S
2008-07-07 [Iske]: Bug ?.. I can't upload anything to my Wiki's anymore.
I use to have one of those Private 99?? things so i cold upload directly from my computer.. It is gone.. Now I have to upload them first on my mainpage, copy and past...
Can I have the link to the bugforum plz... can't seem to find it
2008-07-07 [Avatar15]: @[Alexi Ice] I'm not too sure if this can help you with the print on everything is REALLY small so its hard to look at for long periods of time, but if you press Ctrl and +, the text on your internet screen will enlarge a little. That includes the text on the buttons. Or, if you go to edit your Elftown House there is an option near the top that let's you adjust how you want the font size on Elftown to look for you.
2008-07-07 [Hedda]: [Iske]: The upload to a wiki form is to the right. And the link to the bug-forum is on the forum-page of course.
2008-07-07 [Hedda]: [Avatar15]: The selected font-size in your Elftown house doesn't affect the buttons though.
And Ctrl-+ seems to make the buttons looking bad in Firefox 2 as the backgrounds no longer fill out the space. (It works just fine in Opera. I haven't tried any IE or Firefox 3.)
2008-07-07 [windowframe]: I've got Firefox 3 and when I do that, the buttons look fine.
2008-07-07 [Avatar15]: @[Hedda] :/ That is true... I added the "I'm not too sure" because of that. I didn't test the selected font before I typed that, but it does affect the buttons for me with Alt +. The browser I use makes Elftown look fine with or without adjusting anything, though. I just thought I'd toss those it out there in case it suits her fancy.
2008-07-07 [Zab]: Is there any reason to have the wiki page data above messages and recent wiki changes, btw? I really can't find any and I havn't heard on anybody who actually liked it... Should I start a petition or something with names to get that part changed? >_>
Don't want to complain because I know you've probably put a lot of work behind it, but it's just really annoying..
Having the edit stuff there is pretty neat when I got used to it, btw. ''Show comments'' etc could be to the right too. Just not above all important stuff like messages and changes..
2008-07-07 [Trennas]: i think the order of the boxes on the right bar will be changed once all the other bugs are fixed XD lots of issues to battle, after these updates, there are.. like yoda i sound now XD
OT: because i still had problems viewing ET with IE6 (mainly with the vertical top bar which was very annoying) i downloaded and installed IE7 and the top bar looks okay again :) yay for that:p
2008-07-07 [Zab]: If that's the case, I'll calm down and wait.^__^ Is it the case? Is it?! *hysterical*
2008-07-07 [Trennas]: i assume it is XD but i think its best to remain calm whatever happens:p
2008-07-07 [Lothuriel]: There are still a few bugs to be eated but, I will leave the technical explanations to those less computarded than myself.
2008-07-07 [Trennas]: maybe there are updates on the bug hunt on the forum, but im not sure since i havent been there:p
2008-07-07 [~Spirit Fox~]: um, sorry to bother you all, but are the comments on wiki's from about the last month ever going to come back? Or should we cut our losses and be thankful our wiki's weren't destroied?
2008-07-07 [Lothuriel]: Yes, a troll eated all the comments, guestbook entries, forum posts, and diaries from about a month ago. They are gone...forever
2008-07-08 [~Spirit Fox~]: Okay! then i'll tell my people so they don't bother you guys. Lol, at first we all wondered if ET itself had deleted it to check it over, but then we heard about the bugs. At least everything else is safe!
2008-07-08 [Lothuriel]: No worries. Don't worry about bothering me, it's why I am here to be bothered, erm...um I mean..
well you know..
2008-07-08 [~Spirit Fox~]: lol, well, thanks.
2008-07-08 [Atayemi]: Quoting the Harry Potter Puppet Pals here :P Let's go bother [Lothuriel]! *bother bother bother bother bother*
2008-07-08 [Lothuriel]: Oh nos!
2008-07-08 [Atayemi]: Mohahah, terrible I know :P
2008-07-08 [Diiwica]: Ok, let me just say that I am more than willing to admit that some of the new updates are wonderful. Perhaps even much overdue. However, I think that, some of the updates make elftown seem more generic; like its loosing some of its character. I think elftown look great the way that it was before, it worked pretty good as well. at-least for the most part. I love how the moods have an archive, as well as how we can decide if we want to be left on other members visited page.
EDIT: I like the house and main page is laid out but its some of the buttons that I don't precisely like. As well as the layout on WIKIs.
2008-07-08 [blondechic20891]: i absolutly hate the new elftown......i
2008-07-08 [Hedda]: The main reason I updated it was to get rid of negative people, so it seems to work fine. 
2008-07-08 [Kelaria]: lol!! Wow XD now the truth comes out! ;P
But I'm liking the way things are shaping up now! ^_^ *nod* Much better and very agreeable for all different opinions! I'm using wiki editing a lot today and I'm liking having edit buttons both on the bottom and at the side. Plus, I like having my upload photo area on the side, it makes it much faster to upload a lot of photos in a shorter amount of time! Hooray!! :D
2008-07-08 [Cia_mar]: while we are doing all these sorts of updates... may i make a small suggestion in the organization of the "Your Notes" page:
wikis we create/own should have there own section separated from the wikis we watch pages
it is a lot to go through just to find a certain wiki sorting through both types of wikis in one listing
anyway...
just a thought
2008-07-08 [Imperator]: I wish we could personally organize our notes by dragging them around.
2008-07-08 [Cia_mar]: that be cool... or make organization folders!
2008-07-08 [Hedda]: [Cia_mar]: Separated owned and watched, and only watched wiki-pages done.
Owned and not watched pages aren't listed like before, but that's a feature, I guess.
2008-07-08 [Cia_mar]: cool!...gonna check it out!
2008-07-08 [Sauron]: The idea with the last visitors list is fucking orgasmic! Who thought about it?!
2008-07-08 [Lothuriel]: I did....
*kicks can*
Well at least I wish I did...
2008-07-08 [Lothuriel]: OH and by the way [Hedda], I could totally hump your leg for the NOTES improvements! You rock dude!
2008-07-08 [Trennas]: yep smart decision! very convenient:)
2008-07-08 [Hedda]: [Sauron]: I thought of it while hearing all the complaints and stupid suggestions about how the visitor-list should be. Now it's just a guestbook for people too lazy to write something, but it's an acceptable compromise.
2008-07-08 [Sauron]: Well for you it might be a compromise, for many other people its just the best that could ever be done with that list. You're officially a genius [Hedda]!!! I'm buying you beer some day!
2008-07-08 [Easterling]: Being able to watch poll comments is great! :)
2008-07-08 [Trennas]: thanks for the many more improvements!:
2008-07-09 [Cia_mar]: I hate to bug you all again about this...
but as I am going through the online members, and random members,
I am noticing a lot of moods that say they don’t like the new ET
Also...
while it may have been what you considered a compromise concerning the visitor list...
One thing is it make groups like House Zappers obsolete...I have noticed that many people are just not taking the time to click the "add me" button
and not just cuz they want to stalk, but because it takes too long for the page to reload once you have done it.
So being a member of House Zappers, if the names are not changing on the visitors list, then we can’t zap houses anymore
Also, it is lonely...
I know that sounds terrible
but I love seeing on there that my friends have visited my house and seen my updates
but now the list changes maybe one person a day
if that
And I know it is still a new change and may take a while for people to start doing it,
but even when you just clicked on diary updates for your friends, it used to tell the person that you had been to the house...
it at least let me know that most of my friends had viewed what I had last posted
I don’t like to swamp my diary with lots of stuff all the time
and I try to wait till I know a good percentage of people have seen what I posted before I add something new
So yea, it is lonely now,
I have been on line all morning... 5 hours straight so far... and [smakeupfx] is the only one that added his name
Yet I have seen at least 6 of my friends online and msg with 4 of them
A lot of the email updates I would receive on yahoo were updates telling me that I had a new visitor... I loved that
I am a very social person
I like to know who has been on my page
I can only hope that ET gets better with the changes and that it does not become worse...
Things in the last 2 years have become too "myspace-ish" here of late with the kinds of people that are becoming members
And while this big change may get rid of some of the riff raff
I would hate to see more of the already dwindling population of genuine Elftown denizens, decrease more....
I miss seeing good artists who used to participate in so much more, like: [Asrun]...[Shreya]...[dayah]...[allenp]...[liiga]...[Malnu]...[yusuf]...[~Lady Morgana~]...
They and more like them....
They stop in and then leave again...no longer actively adding to this community as they had in the past...
Sometimes I think I am the only one that misses seeing them...
They added to the collective creative attitude that this place has represented for so long.... but it seems to have begun to lack that artistic flare...
I love Elftown
And while things in life get in the way and have to take the front seat in our lives
I would hate to lose this wonderful community to the "emos & myspacers" of the net....
Sorry this is so long... but I felt it had to be said...
And I have learned in my life; to speak how I feel and think, don’t bottle it up...
So this is just how I have been feeling about how things are of late...
Make of it what you will
Respectfully
Cia
2008-07-09 [Imperator]: I agree with what you said about being lonely, lol. I feel the same way.
But if you want to put the magic back into Elftown, you'll have to do it yourself by participating with lots of these creative wikis. Now you may already be doing that but I'm just mentioning that nobody except for each individual can make Elftown into what they want it to be.
I don't think changes to the way a button looks has any effect.
2008-07-09 [Cia_mar]: i do try to participate often...
especially when i find something worth joining in with
but i suppose it is just the same, when there are no wiki updates showing up, and we are in a dull moment, it is fun to visit the last visitors of my page...
see who was interested in me...
if over a week all i see is the same names... well it just is not as fun....
and i do visit to who's on line pages... but honestly...out of 100 people on line, (and that is alot lately, normally it has been closer to 50)
only 5 may be actual artist, writers, or RPGers...
that contributes to how it has become so lonely...
finding like minded people who share that creative spirit...
it is getting harder to do so....
2008-07-09 [Imperator]: Make or join a wiki that groups all the creative people together to do anything. You could have subdivisions for art, writing, RPing, and just chat or share tips and links, anything. If you get enough people to join it won't be lonely anymore. ;)
2008-07-09 [Ramirez]: [Cia_mar] I too have noticed that there does seem to be a decline in genuine artists and writers here in Elftown, but I also know that there is little we can do to stop them from coming here. (Unless it becomes much harder to be a part of Elftown and when entering you must get approved first from someone reading the profile and thinking you have enough artistic value to contribute to the community. Though I also understand that some people appreciate art and don't consider themselves artists and it's unfair to deny them the ET world). I do sort of miss knowing exactly how many people have visited my ET page, but I can definitely understand why it was done. (Though that 'remove me' from the list seems kind of nice). Some of the new changes do make ET seem more generic and less unique, but some of them are so simple that it's hard to fight them. I personally love those wooden buttons and would much rather prefer those instead of the new green ones, but I can live with it. Many of my friends also do not enjoy the new changes of Elftown, but I think that if we all stick with it and just support ET than we'll eventually come to like the new changes. Though I honestly think that there should be requirements of having some sort of artistic value to each members house and if they lack them they should no longer be welcomed to ET anymore. I'm also growing a little tired of seeing the 'I'm 15, blonde and thin and looking for a good time' biographies. =/
2008-07-09 [Cia_mar]: there are already such wikis... like elftown suburbia and [Lady of Lore] has something too...forgot the name, though i am a member,
and 2 years ago it was active, but recently, it has fallen to being almost not even used, updates for it are few and far between...
the new the hit list for the EVE comps is starting back up, and that was awesome when it was running last time...
i hope that it helps get people going on the creative side of things as well...
but as i have seen lately, there are only the ECM contests that run continuously..
but aside from those... there are not many other things going on here
too few people have the time it seems to maintain new wikis...i know that it takes a lot of effort to run a contest, i have done it...
and have co hosted them as well
and it is hard if your real life intrudes too often
but aside from those who have real life issues that have kept them away
there are few that are will or dedicated enough to maintain such wikis like you are suggesting/...
it would be nice if we could revive a few that have been forgotten in the shadow!
2008-07-09 [Imperator]: Why don't you do it? lol One person can really do it. All it takes sometimes is a single comment to get a conversation going and then more people join in and start seeing the page again and it keeps growing...
2008-07-09 [Cia_mar]: actually i do have a suggestion to how to police new members...
or even old ones that are not here for the reasons ET is made....
one, a new person who signs up should have a trial of 14 days...
if in that time they dont post art, writing, or become active in wikis...then they will be dropped from membership...
i have heard how we cannot actually delete accounts here... but
we can ban them... so in essence they can get banned...
or we as a community... or patrolers or guards...can have a priv that "blocks" a member, much like we have for those annoying people that email us things like "ur hawt"
but make the block so that it causes them to only see non exported views of pages... eventually the emos will leave of their own accord...
and speaking of the blocking feature...
is there a way to do that... i mean for us personally...
i have a bout 15 people that i have blocked for being rude or suggestive....
can we have the block member button make it so that the offending member not only cannot send us messages, but when they come to our profile, are by default only able to see the non exported view of our presentation!?
recently i have found pics that i had up on my page, being used on myspace by a person that i had blocked here...
2008-07-09 [Ramirez]: That would actually be a very good idea. I personally don't have anyone blocked, but I see it being a very good idea having that person unable to see your profile anymore.
2008-07-09 [Calico Tiger]: Actually, a lot of our good artists left because of real life obligations or... well... they left us for MySpace, ironically x) And there are still tons of good artists here. Including many new ones. However, we haven't really gotten to know them :D I try to remember, but I'm not very sociable >_> They all seem to just run in different circles than a lot of us old-schoolers, hehe.
The blocking people from coming to your house thing has been suggested a few times in the forums, but shot down every time. Someone visiting your profile isn't against the rules. They aren't harming anything. If they harass you via messages or guestbook entries, then of course. Report them and they get dealt with. But by blocking people from coming to your house, you're doing the exact opposite of what you're suggesting, which is trying to get people to be more social.
Of course, your reason for it is far more reasonable, imho. There's a real reason behind it other than you just don't like the person or find them creepy (which is usually the general reason we get). I think the problem is trying to find a good compromise on how to do it.
2008-07-09 [Mortified Penguin]: I think it would be better if the last visitor list showed everyone who visited, but gives the visitor the option of removing their name from the list.
2008-07-09 [Hedda]: [Cia_mar]: Well, you're just wrong about Elftown getting "MySpacish". We lost a lot of people because Elftown became less like that and didn't allow people to "express themselves" (posting loads of crap in their house and cybering with everyone). Before you joined and Elfpack was created 2004-10-12, the big majority of the people here had no interest in anything else than finding something to cyber with.
As for the people becoming less active: They got works and stuff. [Shreya] is working around the clock for example. And many people got bored because Elftown was always the same. It has to renew itself to to stay interesting.
2008-07-09 [Trennas]: the new add me button works in IE7 and doesnt refresh the whole page, but the button didnt appear for me when i visited [Saray]. first i thought this was because i was in her friends list and it would automatically put me at the top of the list everytime i visited her page, but i tried other friends and there i did get the button and i had to re-add myself to be on the top of the list. thought that was a bit weird.
edit: i just found out that if you are on top of a list, the add me button doesnt appear. not so weird after all ^^
2008-07-09 [Trennas]: im not sure what you mean by that (it doesnt do anything different than it did before:p) but youre welcome XD
2008-07-09 [Hedda]: [Ramirez]: No, making it possible for someone to access your house is a very bad idea. Then they will just ask a friend, try to create a fake account or something like that to see it anyway. What you put on your page is public information. What you're asking for is like placing an add in a newspaper and asking for it to be there for everyone except the one you're married to. Imagine the paper-boy cut the ad out and replacing it with a text "Your wife forbid you to see this ad!" (you have to find another paper and look there).
And "annoying" people who annoy you is a very bad idea. If someone goes out to annoy people to get blocked from their house, they will actually get a happy feeling when blocked. They should be ignored or maybe thrown out of Elftown totally, that's the way to solve the problem.
2008-07-09 [Hedda]: [Trennas]: Maybe you didn't try it before I fixed it. It used to show the list without your name in when you had pressed the button.
2008-07-09 [Trennas]: oh, i get it.. the reason why i didnt know what you meant was because that already worked for me before you fixed it XD or maybe you had already fixed it, i dont know XD
2008-07-09 [Lothuriel]: This is a general reply, not directed toward a particular person. It's just something I felt like saying:
I admit. I was a bit cheesed and still am somewhat over the new Visitor's List change but, it's growning on me. The change will not kill me, nor you. This I can promise you. I think Elftown is a whole lot better than it was a few years ago when I first started. I have just learned to go with the flow and take changes with a grain of salt. I come here, do my thing and be done with it.
Elftown is truly unique. How many other places do you know of on the web that you can so safely post your works and have them guarded so closely? How many places on the web allow you to create endless mini-websites (wikis) with tons of options and possibilities? The answer? NONE!!! Elftown offers so many options that no place does. I do not know [Hedda] personally but, I do believe that he does genuinely care what people think of his creation and he does do his best to make the users happy.
I honestly do feel good when I come here and I personally don't see the Elftown that you do, I am sorry. Yes at one time it was getting bad but, it simply isn't that bad anymore. I can remember when I first started patrolling. I would have up to 30 reports out of 50 house visits per night! Now, I am lucky to have a couple, that should tell you something.
I do truly feel inspired to come here and I am sorry that you can't do the same. If it had not been for Elftown and the wonderful people I've met here, I would never have gotten my foot in the door of a single publisher nor would I have ever found such amazingly talented and fun friends.
Yes, this place is still littered with bad apples but, for every bad apple, you'll find 10 golden apples! I love Elftown and even though I don't always agree with the decisions made by the "higher ups", I see no real problems with it. I will be here until they force me out the wooden gates of this virtual town!
2008-07-09 [Imperator]: :D
2008-07-09 [Kelaria]: I have to agree with [Lothuriel]! When I joined Elftown (back in 2004, boy that seems like a lifetime ago!) everything seemed wonderful! Then, it kinda went downhil for a time... where I got far too many "ur hawt, wanna cyber?" messages (ugh!)... but it's actually gotten MUCH MUCH better in the past year or so! And it's been a LONG time since I've even got the dreaded "hi" message that annoys me so much. And even longer since I've gotten someone asking me to cyber.
And, you know... if it weren't for Elftown, I never would have met my husband! True, he didn't join Elftown until AFTER we were together, but the girl who introduced us was someone I met and became friends with HERE before we starting chatting on MSN where she introduced me to my now-husband! :D So I really do have to thank Elftown's existence for my incredible happiness now! ^_^ If it weren't for this place... I would never have found the love of my life... which is a terrifying thought for me!
2008-07-09 [Hedda]: I think I should be entitled to about 5% of the widow's/widowe
2008-07-09 [Lothuriel]: Dude...
I got nothin'
2008-07-09 [Kelaria]: lol! We're pretty poor, so I think you'd probably only end up with about $15 XD lol!
2008-07-09 [Hedda]: So generally: If I make Elftown pretty good, few will donate. If I make it way too good, the Elftowners will spend all their time here and will become too poor to donate...
2008-07-09 [Hedda]: More important: Does the checking of wiki-page names, usernames and passwords work for people? (IE and Safari again.)
2008-07-09 [Ramirez]: Ah, well, now that I'm more awake I can see all the points and I agree with them. I was just being silly last night. XD
2008-07-09 [AuroraLumos]: works on IE ^-^
2008-07-09 [Kelaria]: I admit, I'm a bit confused about the name checking feature... XD can someone explain it to my tired brain? :P
2008-07-09 [Trennas]: i will try to find the function you speak of XD
2008-07-09 [Kelaria]: I figured out the username checking part, but not the wiki name checking part... :P I suppose I'll do a little more exploring and poking around :P
2008-07-09 [Trennas]: im not sure where and how we're supposed to check it.. kudos for making the Change Personal Information work field bigger! thats much easier!
2008-07-09 [Hedda]: [Kelaria]: The wiki-name checks are done when you're uploading a folder of images (from the top of your house) or when you edit a wiki-page and change its name.
2008-07-10 [Kelaria]: Okay! I'll have to check it out sometime! ^^
2008-07-10 [Trennas]: just have a weird random question which io hope [Hedda] can answer for me. Im trying to embed something into a wikipage using real html, but instead of showing up, i just get a line of code. Does the real HTML of elftown allow the Wrong syntax for iframe-tag. Correct is: <iframe123*234:http://www.elftown.eu/meetme.html> <iframe> tags? or am i trying something that just doesnt work?
2008-07-10 [Hedda]: It works fine with any kind of code, but when you link to the wiki-page you should use a link like <URL:_examp
The non exported version is only showing the HTML-code.
2008-07-10 [Trennas]: ah wait, it was because i hadnt exported the page that it didnt show anything. too bad that you cant see it while being in Elftown though, as i had hoped i could embed it (the new Lively thing from Google) in a wiki inside of ET. or is that possible, but am i completely not understanding you? XD
2008-07-10 [Hedda]: No, the only thing you can do is to create an entire page in HTML, and then only show that on an exported page. The exported page is static though, and you have to build links to other places on Elftown in it, if you want it to work fine.
The reason that HTML isn't allowed is that I can mess up the page totally, and that's simply not acceptable when there are navigation menus.
What is the Lively thing from Google? I could make a pseudo-HTML tag of that if it's something cool.
2008-07-10 [Trennas]: i assumed correctly then ^^
Lively (www.lively.com) is a new function that allows users to create a virtual 3d world. you can create an avatar, create and manage 3d environments (which are basically small rooms), where you can invite people over. other options are chat, linking to URLs with 3d objects, embedding you tube video, etc, etc.
It just started so you dont have a great many options yet, but I personally see a lot of potential for ET functions in the future if it keeps expanding. RP-ing for instance; heck you could even make some sort of game if you really wanted to :)
here is an example i made after playing around with the options: http://elftown
2008-07-10 [Hedda]: Eh, it demands a Windows only pluggin?
2008-07-10 [Trennas]: you probably have to download Lively to see it, stupid me >.<
2008-07-10 [Khronos Atmosphaera]: I have a queeestion! *waves hand* Okay, Like, I'm getting used to all these changes, and I'm actually starting to like the new ET. ^^ It just took some time to get used to it. But, I usually used the style sheet 'shroomish', and when I go back to use it, my buttons and stuff aren't outlined or anything. Is that supposed to be that way? Or are the other style sheets still being worked on? Or am I asking questions that have already been answered, and I'm just not looking hard enough to find out?
I've just been sticking to the normal style sheet for now, which isn't a bother. I just like the pale colours of the 'shroomish' ^.^
2008-07-10 [Khronos Atmosphaera]: OMG I just answered my own question. Please ignore me now. x_x
2008-07-10 [Teufelsweib]: are the buttons at the top supposed to be underneath each other instead of next to each other, like it used to be?
2008-07-10 [Trennas]: next to each other. you're probably still working with Internet Explorer 6. smartest thing to do is download IE7 or Firefox 3, and it will be alright ^^
2008-07-10 [Teufelsweib]: ah, thought so, thanks :)
I was worried that I would report a bug, and it would turn out to be a part of the new lay-out... ghehe...
2008-07-10 [Trennas]: nope, it is a bug alright XD
2008-07-10 [Cia_mar]: BUG~ still having trouble with viewing pics on some of my wikis, having to reload the pages several times to get the pics to NOT be overlapping
2008-07-11 [Hedda]: [Cia_mar]: It's a bug in Firefox 2. Upgrade to Firefox 3, or wait for that we magically find a solution for it. I have some idea, but right now I don't think they'll work.
2008-07-11 [Mortified Penguin]: I use both IE7 and Firefox 3... I much prefer Explorer, but unfortunetly it doesn't have all the add-ons that Firefox does. Like my precious Tamper Data add-on...
2008-07-11 [Lothuriel]: Firefox 3.0 downloaded.
Elftown surfing to commence in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...
We have wiki look-rightness
2008-07-11 [Cia_mar]: i thought we did have the latest firefox...hmmm will have to check with richard to see if we do or not... if we do have 3 then i will let you know again....lol
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: If you press on "help" and then select "about mozilla firefox you can see which is the version you have without asking Richard :P
2008-07-12 [Cia_mar]: no worries,,, all taken care of now! got the new one loaded up
2008-07-12 [Hedda]: [Cia_mar] just upgraded from Gecko/20080623 Firefox/2.0.0.
2008-07-12 [Linderel]: Question: Why do you not see the 'last visited' list in your own house? :o
2008-07-12 [windowframe]: I see it in mine. O.o
2008-07-12 [Linderel]: The heck? Where? :O
2008-07-12 [Linderel]: No wait, now it's there :D
Weird.
2008-07-12 [windowframe]: weird indeed - when I went to your house I couldn't see it either, now I can. :P
2008-07-12 [Linderel]: The only explanation I can come up with is that it wiped itself clean in the crash. :P
2008-07-12 [Hedda]: [Linderel]: No, that explanation doesn't fit. It much have been you who had temporarily blindness. Lunch in you eye?
2008-07-12 [Linderel]: No, I had not, and no, there wasn't.
It just wasn't there. And the reason why I thought it might have been wiped clean was because I was away when the feature was implemented and thus did not begin using it before Friday evening. <_<
2008-07-12 [Hedda]: But everyone else that hasn't used it has the list. And I haven't changed anything since 09:39:45 this morning.
If you mean much earlier, then it's possible that it was away for awhile.
2008-07-12 [Linderel]: Yes, well. I just realised how silly that reasoning sounded. :P
Ah, whatever.
2008-07-12 [Zab]: *hopes Elftown will stop crashing* I'm scared..what if it dies permanently? :O My life will be ruined! (and my picturs will be looost...xD *too lazy to save them a safe place*
2008-07-12 [Lothuriel]: That is a scary thought! But, I am not sure Elftron is willing to give up that easily.
2008-07-12 [Hedda]: The old images are at least in two places, so that shouldn't happen. I'll start an extra image-backup tomorrow, but it's slowing down Elftown, so I don't want to do it now.
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: [Hedda]- Question, if I may: It seems that all ET's backups are done quite randomally, with no certain schedual. Maybe you should try to consider doing schedualed backups in case you have time for that (though I bet you don't have much time...), like every 2 weeks in tuesday 20:00 pm or something? Just a suggestion... :)
2008-07-12 [Zab]: I only worry about if ET dies permanently:P And then the images are the last thing to worrry about..O_o
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: If you think about it, the only way for ET to die permanently is if the ones who keep it alive give up on it, and I really don't think its going to happen...(though I seriously won't blame them :P)
2008-07-12 [Zab]: True, true... >_>
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: Then no worries! The worse that might happen is that we'll all move to corrupt Elfpack :P
2008-07-12 [Zab]: *shudders* Elfpack.. O___o;;;Why not just take over Fake and make it all green and artsy? >D
2008-07-12 [Lothuriel]: NNOooooOOOoooO
2008-07-12 [windowframe]: [Sauron] Elftown IS backed up on a schedule, not randomly.
2008-07-12 [Teufelsweib]: it's being back upped every 24 hours somewhere in the morning. read the mainstreet news :)
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: Oh it does...well of course it does...
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: But then, how come some things vanish forever when ET crashes? There are backups after all... (just curious)
2008-07-12 [Teufelsweib]: example?
2008-07-12 [Lothuriel]: Is there anything going on with all these crashes that would frack with or relations lists?
2008-07-12 [windowframe]: Because those are the things that were done since the backup. For instance, now there is a backup every hour. Say it happens on the hour, so one happened at 20:00, now, if ET crashed, everything that had been done since 20:00 would be lost, because that stuff wouldn't be backed up until 21:00. make sense? :P
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: Well, ummmm....like, the crash a few weeks ago, when diary notes a few days old vanquished forever to be lost 1's and 0's in the neverending cyber space?
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: I'm sure it'll make sense if I'll read it upside down. :P
2008-07-12 [windowframe]: That was because Hedda had written a new back-up script that didn't work properly. So whilst Elftown was technically going through the motions of backing up each day, the script didn't actually work.
2008-07-12 [Sauron]: So actually it DIDN'T back up each day? And now it works?
2008-07-12 [windowframe]: Yesh. :3 That's my understanding of it, at least.
2008-07-12 [Hedda]: The database-backu
Of course I should backup everything up while Elftown is updated (too), and that's on my TODO-list.
Right now I'm a little busy with pissing the Elfpackers off with the new menus... (and hideous colours) 
2008-07-12 [Zab]: *runs off to see EP* Is it..pink?
2008-07-12 [Calico Tiger]: Bright orange and yellow! with some neon green here and there! That would be awesome to do to them >:D I like pink >_>
2008-07-12 [Zab]: Oh my...O_o poor them.. xD
btw, when will the funny stylesheets work on ET?
2008-07-12 [windowframe]: Well, it's not a neon orange, but it's still pretty funny. :P
2008-07-13 [Cia_mar]: Hedda: The database-backu
Since i dont have a diagram of which server is holding what data... can you tell me what you mean by "not enough places" for the images?
2008-07-13 [Calico Tiger]: Elftown needs more donors so that we can afford bigger hard drives for all of the space that backups of all the images would take. I think that's what he's saying :)
2008-07-13 [Hedda]: [Cia_mar]: There where simply too few harddisks in [Elftron] to put the data on. There is no off site packup, so if a plane crashes into this building Elftown is no more. But I think it's more important to back up a thing like me than to care about that. Or in other words: Elftown needs to grow to get some economy to build up a stability around.
2008-07-13 [Hedda]: What about if I put ads on Elftown, by the way? I see no reason to put up ads for people logged in (logged in people generally never click on ads anyway) but getting a few bucks from the ones passing by shouldn't hurt the Elftowners.
Right now I'm paying for the power (Lucklily during the crashed I have it at home) and moving back to the university isn't exactly on my priority list.
2008-07-13 [Calico Tiger]: I have no problem with that idea. If people don't wish to see ads, they can either log in, or create an account (which is another way of getting people to make accounts and check us out fully, even if it is just to get rid of ads).
2008-07-13 [Ramirez]: Speaking of donations, is the only reasonable way to donate through paypal? Or have I been missing that completely?
2008-07-13 [Imperator]: Yeah, I've always wondered why you didn't have ads all over the place like basically every other web site in existance. I think it's a great idea because it benifits Elftown so much that it justifies the annoying factor. :P Plus you can snatch a couple bucks off the top for yourself but this sentence is off the record...
The only problem is about donations. Would ads pay for all of Elftown's needs and if so would donations just be shut down or what?
2008-07-13 [Imperator]: Ads would also be great because you can trade ads with other art sites to get more artists from those sites introduced to Elftown and to show Elftowners another place to display their work.
2008-07-13 [Balthizar]: Lets..not have ads.
It's what makes this site different then myspace and facebook.
*rereads everything*
So wait..so I get this right.
The only ones who would see ads
Are those without accounts?
2008-07-13 [Kelaria]: I think if we don't have to see the ads when we're logged in, that wouldn't be a big deal (if it helps pay for ET!). Just as long as they're not huge and overwhelming and totally detracting from ET's front page look... I dunno, might detract no matter what they look like, but it might help out ET and keep it running and all that!
2008-07-13 [Cia_mar]: maybe write a proposal...and add a poll... let ETers say what they think?
2008-07-13 [Trennas]: i can imagine that running ET is a costly task, so if putting up a few adds to relieve some financial pressure is something i can totally understand, providing that they are not too horribly present of course ^^
2008-07-13 [Trennas]: ps. i find that after i log out, i end up on the exported version of my house instead of the login screen. bug or change?
2008-07-13 [Khronos Atmosphaera]: When the ads popped up that one time, on my house, I have to admit, it scared me, and I didn't like the idea. Because like... this may sound funny but ET is such a wonderful place to get away from everything for a few minutes, and its like... 'fancy' here... if you understand my meaning; Different from everything else.
So let me make sure I heard this correctly... Ads for non-members, and no ads for members? I could go with that. Especially if it helped keep this place running.
2008-07-13 [Artsieladie]: Hmm...I've been working on a promotional campaign idea, & I do the 'link back' from wherever possible. Anyway, I wasn't logged in at the time, when I was checking the link to bring one to the 'login' page & instead of it bringing me to the login page, it brought me right to Mainstreet, with the 'logged in' view. Somehow it bypassed the login page altogether. I haven't tried it again to see if it would happen again. Maybe later I will. :P
The link I used was, http://elftown
2008-07-13 [Imperator]: Um, hello guys! I'd much rather have an Elftown with ads than an Elftown that erases my comments everywhere for a month! Don't you?
2008-07-13 [Khronos Atmosphaera]: Hey, things happen. Life can get much worse I'm sure. *shrugs*
2008-07-13 [Khronos Atmosphaera]: Uhm, okay. I think I found a bug... I had posted something in a diary and a friend of mine replied to it. Of course, if you hover over the diary link, it shows the first few words of what was said in the diary, and that even goes for messages too. At least on FireFox.
Anyway, I happen to hover over the link, and I looked, and the diary, and I realized it wasn't my diary. I clicked on the link, and it took me to some random person's diary.
I'm going to say this is a bug...?
2008-07-13 [Calico Tiger]: Guys, remember, he said if you're not logged in to Elftown you would see the ads :) If you don't want to see ads, you just log in :D
2008-07-13 [Teufelsweib]: as long as the ads don't make noise (I hate the ones who do!) it sounds like a great solution:O
2008-07-13 [Hedda]: [Trennas] "ps. i find that after i log out, i end up on the exported version of my house instead of the login screen. bug or change? "
[Artsieladie]: ~ elftown.eu redirects to start.html when logged in.
Yes, those are new features. The logout-redirec
The redirect from / for logged in members was because apparenly not everyone understands that they are logged in otherwise.
2008-07-13 [Trennas]: well, whatever you did, you managed to create a new problem XD it is now impossible to browse around ET normally in IE7. I can log in from the login page, then i end up on main street, but there is NO TOP BAR, and NO RIGHT SIDE BAR! it just shows three gigantic buttons at the top. when i try to get to my house (or anyone else's) by clicking on a link, since there is no other way to do it, ET seems to not have me logged in at all since i end up on either an exported house or non exported house and it asks for my name and password..
most frustrating, i can tell you:p
2008-07-13 [Trennas]: seriously? here it is a total mess XD i cant do anything in IE7 :(
2008-07-13 [Cia_mar]: i hated IE7 when i put it on the comp.... it made my kid's lose adobe reader and all the pdf files would not work for their homeschooling online
so we took it off
i like firefox best....
i noticed that when i log off it goes to the exported view of my house too... that change was fine...
have not tried to look at anything while not logged in....
and have not had a problem logging in in anyway that you described, [Trennas]
have you tried to browse in a different browser to see if it is only IE7 mucking you up, or if there is a specific bug with ET and your account?
2008-07-13 [Artsieladie]: I'm not totally understanding what you are saying, Hedda, but I know I wasn't logged in, b/c I had finally finished downloading Mozilla/Firefo
PS... On the right hand side at the top are now 4 buttons: Help - Chat - Online - Moods. The 'Moods' button is too far to the right to click on it, without moving the column to the left. :P
Number of comments: 872
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